As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died. After repeated efforts to convince Uriah to have sexual intercourse with Bathsheba failed, king David gave the order to his general, Joab, that Uriah should be placed on the front lines of the battle, where Uriah would be more likely to die. The answer comes from Psalm 55:23 (emphasis ours): But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; the bloodthirsty and deceitful will not live out half their days. [71] After returning to Jerusalem, Absalom lived there for another 2 years. When David was dying, Bathsheba successfully conspired with the prophet Nathan to block Adonijahs succession to the throne and to win it for Solomon. Bathsheba, also known as Bathshua, is a character that appears in the Hebrew Bible (2 Samuel 11, 12; 1 Kings 1, 2). In David's old age, Bathsheba, based on David's promise, secured the succession to the throne by Solomon, instead of David's elder surviving sons by his other wives, such as Chileab (2 Samuel 3:16), Adonijah (1 Kings 1:1131) and others (2 Samuel 3:16). Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the conservative estimate). The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. Change). And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best! This cannot refer to Absalom. [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. She became influential in the royal palace. The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. The relationship between Bathsheba and King David did not begin well. He could have been as old as 11 years if we assume that the four years in 2 Samuel 15:7 refers to the time from Absaloms return from Geshur (2+3+2+4=11). The table below shows a summary of this information and calculations of ages for David, Ahithophel, Solomon, and Bathsheba, based on the chronology of 2 Samuel 1117. In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. Bathsheba: Bible | Jewish Women's Archive That Ahithophel had then a married grand-daughter is less probable than that there were in Israel two Eliams.[81]. It should also be pointed out that there is no indication that Bathshebas marriage to either Uriah or David was seen as abnormal or immoral. The table below shows a summary of They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. The woman was very beautiful, 3 and David sent someone to find out about her. It only criticizes the explanation of Ahithophels possible motive for helping Absalom (i.e., revenge for Davids sinful act with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah the Hittite). While there, the prophet Nathan tells David in 2 Samuel 12:8: "I would give you twice as much over," which 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. The oldest man in the Bible, after the patriarchs, was Jehoiada, who supposedly died at the age of 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). Rather, David laments being betrayed by: a man like myself, my companion, my close friend, with whom I enjoyed sweet fellowship[28]. If Solomon was 11 years old at the time of Ahithophels death (the non-conservative estimate), then Bathsheba would have been around 9 years old at the time of Solomons birth. He [David] now remembers that, at the heart of Absaloms rebellion, giving it direction and force, indeed making it possible, is Ahithophel., [33] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, It would be idle to fix a time, and find an occasion for this Psalm with any dogmatism. [13] Most commentaries also share this view, including Barnes Notes on the Bible,[14] Coffmans Commentaries on the Bible,[15] the Expository Notes by Dr. Thomas Constable,[16] E.W. As shown, David was declaring that those who had betrayed him and were trying to kill him will not live out half their days. 1. This tends to be the go-to argument for problematic verses. But now Adonijah has become king 1 Kings 1:17-19 NIV. Although Nathan is the third son raised by David and Bathsheba, he is the fourth born to Bathsheba. And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. Im not a non-Muslim. Yes, David must have been in his late 30s to his early 40s and Bathsheba would have been young but of age, not an adolescent. "[4] According to Michael D. Coogan, the faulting of David is made clear in the text from the very beginning: "It was springtime, the time when kings go forth to war but David remained in Jerusalem" (2 Samuel 11:1); if David had been away at war, the incident would not have taken place. Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). He didnt go down to his own house. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the upper limit. Note that this is the most. [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. She was the mother of Solomon, who succeeded David as king, making her the Gebirah (queen mother). [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. Thus, while some people (a very small minority) may have lived into their 90s (though no proof exists from the Bible), this would not have been the normal extent of life at the time. another great academic article. 9 However, Uriah slept at the palace entrance with all his masters servants. According to the decree of God, he might have lived the other half; but he has not done it., [57] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, They are bloody and deceitful men (that is, the worst of men) and therefore shall not live out half their days, not half so long as men ordinarily live, and as they might have lived in a course of nature, and as they themselves expected to live. Why would the author of 2 Samuel have mentioned Eliam in passing on two different occasions and yet have meant them to be two different people and not clarify it, especially since Bathsheba was the daughter of one Eliam, whereas another Eliam was part of Davids elite military unit? David pleaded with God to spare his child, fasting and spending the nights lying in sackcloth on the ground (2 Samuel 12:1617), but after seven days the child died (2 Samuel 12:18). You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. Bathsheba - Wikipedia A Mosque in the area of Medina, possibly: This page was last edited on 31 March 2023, at 21:50. They shall live as long as the Lord of life, the righteous Judge, has appointed, with whom the number of our months is; but he has determined to cut them off by an untimely death in the midst of their days., [58] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, A wicked man never lives out half his days; for either he is cut off before he hath lived half the course of nature, or he is cut off before he hath lived a quarter of the course of his desires; either he lives not half so long as he would; and therefore let him die when he will, his death is full of terror, trouble, and confusion, because he dies out of season. As far as I am aware, this evidence has not been discussed before in Muslim-Christian debates, so it is completely new (though it is not a new discovery). According to 2 Samuel 15:30, David was on the Mount of Olives when he found out about Ahithophel. [2] Of course, in the previous article, I showed evidence from within the Bible. 1 Chronicles omits all reference to the way in which Bathsheba became David's wife, and gives only the names of her children in 1 Chronicles 3:5Shimea, Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon. [69] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html. In this article. And, if we allow the psalm to be Davids, we can scarcely give any other explanation. David repented of his sins, and Bathsheba later gave birth to Solomon. What if someone was 90 years old at the time?, Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). Thus, when Christians say that Muhammads (peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was immoral, and if Muslims were to respond by saying well, the Biblical figures married young girls too, so they are also immoral, that would be a tu quoque fallacy. Bathsheba was a daughter of Eliam and was probably of noble birth. David is described as a man of faith ( Hebrews 11 ), a man after Gods own heart ( 1 Samuel 13 ), and an ancestor of Jesus himself ( Luke 1:32 ). Share. I am the author, and I have already debunked IC on Rebekah. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. From the roof he saw a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. Sons of David The admirer, King David, is not where he is supposed to be, on the battlefield with his troops, but instead has tarried at his palace. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. [35], Along with Eve, Bathsheba was almost the only female whose nude depiction could easily and regularly be justified in Christian art, and she is therefore an important figure in the development of the nude in medieval art. [2] Thus, Christians will reject the estimation of Abishag and Marys ages (approximately 12 years) because the Bible does not specifically state it and because the estimate comes from Jewish commentaries or historical evidence or even the early church fathers and not from the Biblical text.[3]. He also gives 3 main reasons why it is not recommended to set a certain cutoff for basic rights, these being: This is more or less how medieval Islamic scholars dealt with the issue. 10 David was told, Uriah didnt go down to his own house, so David asked Uriah, Havent you just returned from a journey? Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. Was David not praying to God for this to happen? Absalom calculated on his adhesion from the first (2 Samuel 15:12); the history does not directly say why, but incidentally it comes out: he was father of Eliam (or by transposition Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5), the father of Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3; 2 Samuel 23:34; 2 Samuel 23:39)., [9] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, He may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [10] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, Being Bathshebas grandfather, he had been alienated by Davids criminal conduct, [11] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, A Gilonite, grandfather of Bathsheba, and a very wise counsellor of David, [12] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, Some have endeavored to account for Ahithophels treason by the supposition that, as it seems likely he was Bath-shebas grandfather, he wished to revenge on David the evil done to her. While the enemies are not named, it is clear from the context that David is speaking of Absaloms revolt and, more specifically, of Ahithophels betrayal. An older king could certainly have a younger counselor, and since early marriages were very common, it is not surprising for a 3040-year-old man to have grandchildren. Biography of King David, Biblical Jewish Leader - Learn Religions [6] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, [7] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel seems to have been the grandfather of Bathsheba., [8] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel was the mainspring of the rebellion. [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David., This was also the conclusion of the classical Jewish sources, such as the Targums and the Talmud, as explained in, But it was thou,. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the entire Bible, and both instances occur in 2 Samuel. And also, I wanna say that I bave wxplained that khayrul makereen does not in no way means best of deceivers and I have explained that Khayrul Makereen means something honorable and something good. One of Davids faithful soldiers (2 Samuel 23:39. See my videos here: I agree that Rebekah was not 3 years old. The estimation of Bathshebas age is indeed based primarily on the interpretation of Psalm 55, and especially verse 23 (see objection #2 below). This was especially the case in France.[36]. There is no reason to interpret the verse allegorically. This does not directly affect the narrative concerning Bathsheba herself. Or Ammiel, [1 Chronicles 3:5] who was the son of Ahithophel, [2 Samuel 23:34] who might, for the dishonour done by David to his niece Bathsheba, be the readier to conspire against him, and to take part with Absalom., [22] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/isn/psalms-41.html#1, Ahithophel was the grandfather of Bathsheba., [23] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lmg/2-samuel-15.html#1, The reason for this strong enmity was likely that Ahithophel was the grandfather of Bathsheba, [24] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mac/2-samuel-12.html#13, He was Bathshebas grandfather; and we are not going wrong, I think, in tracing his passionate hatred, and the peculiar form of insult which he counselled Absalom to adopt, to the sense of foul wrong which had been done to his house by Davids crime., [25] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tsk/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam: 11:3; 15:31; 17:23; 1 Chronicles 27:33,34, [26] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tbi/2-samuel-12.html#14, What swept Ahithophel into the ranks of that great conspiracy? Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [, Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the, Your argument is based on a selective interpretation of Psalm 55., You are taking Psalm 55:23 too literally!, Maybe people could live even longer than 80 years of age at the time of David! Ali Al-Ridha got upset and said: "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un, you assign sluggishness in prayer to the prophet of God, and then accuse him of unchastity, and then charge him with the murder of an innocent man!" [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. Surah 70 Verse 30 which Christians take out of context. But, let us be even more generous and round it up to 80. He states that: an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have.[101]. David Barnes Notes on the Bible states that: [a]ll the expressions used in this verse would probably be applicable to Ahithophel, and to the intimacy between him and David.[29]. Bathsheba was King David's most famous and controversial wife, in part because their marriage came after an illicit extramarital affair at the height of David's Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. Know that this is true that women conceive at an earlier age, as Bathsheba had already given birth to a child from David before giving birth to Solomon[4], But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? Others may come to accept the evidence presented but will still attempt to downplay it. Share Improve this answer Follow answered Dec 7, 2018 at 11:17 Philip 1,245 1 10 22 Add a comment Your Answer Yet, as with the attribution of the psalm to Ahithophel, the interpretation of verse 23 was largely unified among the commentators. (2Samuel 16:23), So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was. Bathsheba did not take a ritual bath when she was spied on.

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